The FoFH Market Place features not only 'Wanted' and 'For Sale' advertisements, but also pleas for help. Help usually arrives thick and fast, from members and non-members. Many people ask where they can obtain spare parts and manuals: well, they're readily available from the specialist suppliers listed in our Directory of Suppliers, and often from your local Agricultural Dealer- look in Yellow Pages. Some of them are available from FoFH's Shop. It's a credit to Harry Ferguson's design that nearly 60 years after the tractor was made, you can still buy parts off the shelf, and without travelling too far.
Heat Shield:Why is it so important to have a heat shield on an engine running TVO?Nick Laurie
Tim Sutton: You don’t need one if you run on petrol only. If you run on TVO, you need to keep the heat of the inlet manifold high to vaporise the TVO mixture so it will burn in the cylinder.
Ian Collins (FoFH's Greater Manchester Co-Ordinator): the reason they were fitted was to ''spread' the heat around the TVO tank. so that the fuel was warm when it went into the carb, then the engine.
John: To burn TVO successfully without diluting the oil you need to have as much heat as possible and the manifold heatshield simply stops cooling of the manifold by the atmosphere: it won't run succesfully without one because it won't stay hot enough to vaporise the TVO. Buy a SH one from Patrick Smith at Fergiland www.fergiland.co.uk
Hot Engine:Our recently purchased MF35 TVO runs very warm after a short time. We have tried flushing out the cooling system and cleaning the radiator to no avail. Does anybody know if this is normal? Should it run warmer than a diesel?
Randy Knol: A TVO machine needs a higher temperature to combust the TVO: as long as it stays under 90 degrees centigrade there should be no problem.
Graham Holland: I would expect the manifold of a TVO engine to run quite hot. That's the purpose of the manifold shroud. You need plenty of heat to vapourise the Tractor Vapourising Oil. Having said that, do you have a temperature gauge on your tractor? It must run within the green marker.
Gerrit Preuter: Please check your ignition timing- it could be too far advanced.
Hamish Lowe: Using TVO you want your engine as hot as possible to aid combustion, as long as it's not boiling over. My TVO 35 had a radiator blind put over the front grill to get engine hot enough, especially in winter. They also had a manifold shield to keep manifold temp up. How do you know its running very warm? If its the temperature gauge, it may be not recording true temperatures. [Editor]Hamish lives in Perth, Scotland, where low air temperatures are not uncommon.
Mike, of Wigan: My TEF 20 diesel had the same problem. I took out the thermostat and found that the housing was full of a white crystalline material that was totally blocking the flow. - Possibly someone's previous attempt to cure a leaking radiator.
Oils: Can anybody tell me what is the correct type of oil to put in gearbox of my TED20 does this also do the back axle all as one?
Tim R Sutton: Yes... but he also went on to say: Don’t use a modern multigrade in your engine, use a straight oil as the book says. Modern oils have very "searching" detergents and your engine will become very "ratteley" (if there is such a word). If you just play with your tractor, use a SAE 40, if you work it hard, use a SAE 30.
John: The oil for the TEF should be a detergent and used to be Agricastrol HD30: the quantity you require is 13 pints. If you don't change the oil filter it is less 1 pint; use the same oil for the air cleaner too. While the same would do for a TED engine in good condition, it's not recommended because of the detergent in the oil so you should use Agricastrol 30/40, same fill up as TEF; 13pints.
Graham Holland: Oil for your gearbox is SAE 40. A good quality non-detergent motor oil SAE40 or 20-50 will be fine as it covers from SAE20 - SAE50 dependent upon temperature. There is much discussion amongst tractor owners about the relative values of SAE40 oils compared with 20-50 multigrade oils so we asked an oils manufacturer to visit here at our works a couple of weeks ago. To sum up an hour or more of conversation on the matter, he said that a good quality, modern 20-50 or any detergent free oil used in a modern motor car is ideal but that we would find it easier to sell an old fashioned SAE40 to tractor owners. All modern oils contain additives which help to look after an engine. Using a detergent oil might cause terrible difficulties in an old engine if it had not been fully serviced first and the filters and oil changed soon afterwards; but is very good for it provided a proper, full service has been performed first. Our caution with detergent oils in unserviced engines is because the detergents in the oil can clean out the walls of oil galleries and the resulting residue can clog filters and block small oil ways such as that leading to the rockers. Do not be tempted to use hydraulic oil or gear oil in your back end. The entire back end is filled from the filler on the top of your gearbox near the gear stick. Do allow 10 minutes for it to flow through before dipping again to check. Oil takes a while for the oil to flow back to the stick, so there is a tendency to over fill. Detergent and non-detergent oils should not be mixed.
David Roots: I seem to recall from my apprentice days (at MF) that the same oil was used everywhere and it was known as BP Tractor Universal.
Oil Pressure: I took delivery of a Ted20 yesterday, my first tractor, and wish to use it for occasional topping of 2 acres this year. One of my first observations is that the oil pressure is around 20psi and drops up and down. I believe the pressure should be around 40 - 50. Is 20 psi OK for light work?
Alan Gandy: My comments should be treated as general rather than specific. The oil pressure at idle is not very important, rather the pressure say at about 1500 revs. Try changing the oil as it may be diluted, especially if run on TVO before correct temperature, and may in any case be "tired". Go for a grade thicker than specified. But the other thing to think about would be the pressure relief valve which is fitted on the filter mounting. Has it got dirt in it, is it jammed or not seating properly? Failing that, and if you decide action is necessary, you could fit new shells and a new oil pump and hopefully avoid a crank removal. The main and b.e. shells can be fitted quite easily with the sump removed.
Angus: I shouldn't worry, even after a rebuild they don't get much oil pressure. I have tried new oil pump and end and main bearings but I was wasting my money. Put a new filter in and clean out the mesh on the end of the pick up pipe when you change the oil but if that doesn't help on light work it will probably run for years anyway. My TEL has had low oil pressure since about 1969 and we didn't do anything with it until it blew a piston around 1986 even then I put second hand pistons in and new shells and she goes great. That did a lot of heavy work rotovating etc so they are quite hard to break!
Matt Keeling: Oil pressure on TE-D's can be an erratic thing, once warmed up mine shows an oil pressure of between low and normal (I have a replacement gauge!) and have no problems, having spoken to some other owners today it seems to be a common phenomenon, one old boy even told me his TE-D runs well with an oil pressure of 0! I think perhaps using the right grade of oil helps, modern multigrades are too thin, a nice thick SAE 40 is what should be used in TE-D's. I don't think it's an indicator of serious wear, as it seems to be the 'norm' with most others I have seen and should be OK for occasional pasture topping- although don't hold me to this!
Tim Sutton: Fergies should have "straight" oil in the engines and gearboxes, i.e. non multigrade. As the engine gets hot, the oil thins, and you get a drop in oil pressure as it finds its way out from all the bearings etc. more easily. If you have a "working" oil pressure when running, fine. At tickover, when hot, it may only be 1 or 2 psi which is also OK. Don’t put a modern multigrade into an old engine! They don’t like it and it makes them very rattley as the detergent cleans out all the gunk that keeps them quiet. Use a SAE40 or 30 in both engine and gearbox/diff. Do you know your oil pressure gauge is OK and accurate?
Anon: 20 PSI is better than nothing on such an old engine and it will probably run quite happily on it if you are careful to make sure it doesn't disappear to the red line when it gets hot. You may well find though, that as with my TED20, it has been filled with the incorrect oil.... a modern multigrade which is far too thin for 50 year old tolerances. I refilled mine with SAE40 grade which is what the Fergie manual says and the oil pressure is now right up and seldom drops below 40. Good luck and I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of your new toy, don't hesitate to ask if you wish to know anything else.....us Fergie owners are a pretty friendly bunch!
George McGhee: After flushing at tick-over with hydraulic oil, replace the engine oil and filter with a good quality Mineral oil. If you can, remove and clean the oil pump pick up screen i.e. the oval plate on the side of the sump. Remove the oil pressure pipe and give a good clean out with paraffin and an airline.
John: Oil pressure should be between 40 and 60psi at about half throttle and with engine hot. Being a TED and running on TVO its possible that some oil dilution has occurred, try changing the engine oil and fill it with a 40/50 grade oil and try it then see how it is, don't forget to change the oil filter at this time. If it is still on the low side you can adjust the oil pressure relief valve which is on the top of the oil filter housing, slacken the locknut off and screw the adjuster in to increase the pressure. You may be lucky and it will work for you. While you are at it, why not change the air filter oil as well, that needs to be changed often and more so if its dusty conditions and is something that most people neglect to do.
Starting: Does anyone have any hints/tips to improve the starting of my 4cylinder Standard deisel MF35 ie modifications to cylinder head, fuel pump, heating system etc. It has had new pistons and liners but is still a slow starter.James
John Junkin: I have heard that a Ford 4000 (I think) starter motor will fit and will spin the engine faster thanthe original MF part. Ask around.
I had a similar problem that was resolved by changing the head to one with heater plugs in it. This mod in effect madethe MF 35 into the varient sent to overseas markets. The head was obtained from a guy in Mansfield who hasadvertisedrecently in Tractor and Machinery. I believe his name was Tony Bramley and he lived on the Derby road. The head was a straight fit, as used on the Standard diesel van, and I obtained the heater plugs from a local Agricultural Engineer(Landshire Engineering, Polden Hills, Somerset). I say this as I know that the owner of this company drills normal Standard23C heads to take heater plugs and that he is still producing these heads. The only other thing that is required is a solenoid to bring in the heater circuit when the starter is selected to heat. Also modifying the Thermo start circuit i.e.routing the return fron the fuel pump direct to the diesel tank and removing the small reservoir tank that supplies the Thermostart. As stated the mods to the tractor are easy and she's easy to start even on a very cold winters day.
I recently had the same problem- the only acceptable solution I found was to drill out the head below the injectors and fit individual heater plugs (known as a cold climate head). This can be done by any good engine remanufacturing company.The tractor now starts instantly after about 5 seconds heating. Tip- use Landrover heater plugs; they are cheaper toreplace. Other people have said that if you drill out the head inserts this should make starting easier - I believe itmakes the head more akin to a direct injection. Ps the cost for the head modification should be no more than £ 175. Michael Palmer (County Down Traction Engine Club)
Starting Handle: Is it possible to start a TEF using the starter handle? Andrew
John: Well yes it is, they have a decompressor fitted as you will know, one handle at the dash and one handle above the dynamo so you can reach it when you are turning the engine over. But I would say the engine needs to be in reasonable condition and the fuel pump timing and fuel spill cut off correctly adjusted
I've tried a number of times to start a TEF using the starter handle and failed on each occasion. If the timing is up to scratch then you might stand a chance to turn the engine over with sufficient speed using the decompression lever before trying to engage the lever, a two person job. I have seen it done but not managed it myself. I prefer to ensure that the battery is maintained and that the Ki- gas is up to scratch during the winter months.
Pol Fraikin: Yes, it is possible. Use the starting handle supplied with the tractor or if not available, order it (part nr. 827081M91) together with the extention tube (Nr. 827082M1) from a MF distributor.
Graham Holland: In the old days [when starting handles were in every-day use], there was an injury called a Scaphoid Fracture. This is the smallest bone in the hand and is at the base of the thumb. Most injuries to it were caused by starting handles. To avoid it (and believe me from experience it takes 3 months in plaster to heal and hurts like hell), make your thumb stay up against your 1st finger when you wind the handle, wrapping your whole hand OVER the handle. NEVER hold the handle the way it is most comfortable which is in the crook between the thumb and 1st finger. If the engine "snaps back" it pulls the thumb away from the hand and breaks that little bone. That bone has a blood vessel going through it, which is what makes it so slow to heal.
[Editor]: Being of a relatively puny build, I prefer to think of the starting handle as a convenient way of turning the engine over during repairs or servicing.
Electrics...
Boy, pliers.... Electric wires.... Blue flashes..... Boy, ashes
Battery:I have just purchased a TEF20 Diesel Fergie, however, the battery needs replacing. Could anyone tell me what size battery (amperage) I need to start it especially on the very cold mornings?
Matt Keeling: Originally, the TEFs all had two 6 volt batteries either side of the seat, but nearly all now have just the one 12 volt. The size is known as a 643, I think about 100A-h. The huge size and amperage is needed because it's an indirect injection engine and not a brilliant cold weather starter anyway.
6 or 12 Volt:I have a 1951 TED20 and I am looking for a new coil,can anybody confirm if my tractor has a 12v or 6v electrical system?
Bob: You could have either 6v or 12 v system, 6v were used on all TED20 up to serial no. 200,000 and 12v after. Sparex can advise you on the correct one and the nearest stockiest of their parts but the original coil on a 6 volt system is a Lucas model R6 and on a 12v system it is Lucas model B.12.45012A. Sparex list this as part no. S.42377.
A 6v battery has 3 battery water top up caps and a 12v has 6
Sparex website is www.sparex.co.uk. For a wiring diagram look at www.geocities.com/MotorCity and look up wiring diagrams.
Wiring: I have a 1947 te20 that was just about working until a cow ate all the wiring. Can anyone sell me another, complete? Max
Peter: I can supply a wiring harness and control box. You can contact me at
vintagetractors@hotmail.com for further info.
Wiring Diagram: Can any kind person out there supply an emailable wiring diagram for a TEF with Standard diesel? James Ashby
Adrian Redmond supplied his beautifully drawn TEA wiring diagram, and has kindly allowed FoFH to include it on our pages. James Ashby went on to produce his own TEF diagram (reproduced here with James' permission).
They're in pdf format, so you'll need the (free) Adobe Acrobat Reader® to view: available from the Adobe web site.
Generator: The dynamo is not working on my TED: will it be OK to put an alternator on it? Gary.
Peter: I replaced the dynamo with an alternator on my MF35 Standard diesel, bypassing the voltage regulator and putting a bulb in the starter switch....nothing is fused, but it works well and charges the battery really efficiently. It also provides plenty of power for spot lights etc. I suggest an old Ford Escort alternator or similar as it won't produce much more than 14 volts of battery charge.
Tim: Yes, but remember that an alternator provides AC rectified to DC, and has its own voltage and current regulating mechanism. You will need to remove the existing control box and modify the wiring circuits. Unless you really know what you are doing, ask an auto electrician to do it.
MPF, Belgium: If you fit an alternator on your vintage tractor, it will be depreciated. You can get a dynamo from any automotive electrical specialist [such as] Wood-Auto, Huddersfield.. Moreover, it is possible to rebuild your failed dynamo. Ask the specialists.
Paint...
Schemes: Does anyone have any diagrams or anything to tell you which colour to paint each item on the tractor, if you get me drift. I'm restoring my Grey Ferguson TED-20 petrol/TVO tractor.
Chris Massingham (FoFH): Its all grey!!! The badge on the front should be blue.
The Old Chestnut: What is the correct Grey for a TEA20?
John: I have a paint colour code for Ferguson TE20 Grey..NAPA GREY 99L3740
Anon: For my T-20 paint I go to my local MF dealer: they sell 1 litre tins for about £9.11 inc vat called "Vintage Ferguson Grey"
John: Can't get a definitive shade , though I did get the following that may help you: Ferguson Grey, Rustoleum #975; Rustoleum Navy Grey (matches H-7). By Navy Grey I would think they mean what we used to call Battleship grey, from memory it isn't that far out... but, if you have a painted part from your tractor and the paint is in reasonable condition, go to a vehicle paint supplier, they will be able to mix to the exact shade you require, using a spectrometer and computer as they all seem to do these days it should not present a problem, plus the paints they have today are much better than the old enamels they used originally in production.
Ian Collins (FoFH Manchester Co-ordinator): I was only having this debate with Tom Cowper yesterday. The answer to your question in my opinion is "whichever one you are happiest with". I will give you an explanation for this: Paint mixes vary depending on who makes/mixes them and batches produced in etc etc. So in other words, no 2 batches of grey are exactly the same. All this aside, there are various people claim to have the correct "Ferguson" grey, such as BJ Simms, Fergiebitz.com, Old 20 Parts, Fergiland, etc etc, most of which are all completely different to each other. This is why I say which ever one YOU are happiest with. Somebody will always say your's is not the correct colour no matter which one you use. Having said all this, I know Fergiebitz.com had their grey matched to an originally painted control box mount so it has probably had minimal fading, BUT who is to say that the particular tractor they matched it off was not painted by an apprentice and was not a completely different colour to every other fergie. You cannot say it is the "correct grey" simply that it is an exact match for the colour of that particular tractor. I hope all that makes sense, and I hope you understand it is only my opinion.
Editorial comment: Though it hasn't appeared in this collection of replies, it has been noted before that Harry Ferguson bought his paint from various suppliers, including ex-Admiralty "Battle-ship grey" paint, which was probably cheap and plentiful in the late 1940's and early 50's. The colour of these paints would not be consistent.
Gearing, Transmission, PTO...
Dual Clutch: My dual clutch won't work...Ed Agar
Alan Gregory: I thought my dual clutch wasn't working either, until I found that it worked if I put all my weight on it. I now have a different MF35, but still have to stand on one leg on the clutch to make it work..
John: I would suggest that with very little use of the PTO clutch, that the clutch pate has stuck tothe clutch assy. You may be able to free it without stripping it down, if you can get something that requires quite abit of power to drive it and keep your foot on the pedal so all internal pressure is removed it just may free ifyou are lucky.
Hydraulics...
Lift arms: They have not been used for 3 yrs but were supposed to work before that. They are in the 'top'position and there is no response when the lever is moved up or down. Howard Young
Stephen Frost: I've got limited experience of a TED 20 which I use near Corwen, North Wales. It appears that on mine the hydraulics work to actively lift the forks but the weight of the equipment lowers them. ie. the hydraulics do not actively lower the forks. It could be that after 3 years they have just seized and need a good weight on them. You need to engage the pto drive to the left of the seat by pushing it back with the clutch depressed and then lock the hydraulic lever in the down position.
Wheels and Tyres...
Judder: I have a problem with my TEF and with a TED: the wheels they both shake about; they judder like h*ll. Can anyone tell me what the problem might be please?
Samuel Hale: I think this is perhaps due to the wheel nuts not being tight enough. I have a David Brown Implematic (diesel) and the rear wheels and tyres judder about (space-hopper) when the tractor is in tickover.
Tyre Size: Will 28 x 11 tyres fit under standard mudguards?
Paul: We run a TED20 with 12.4x28 rears and they fit. It's a bit tight in the wings (54" wheelcenters) for ploughing so I think your 11 inch tyres should be no problem!
Serial Numbers and Registration...
MF 65: Just bought MF 65 s/n 526117 I beleve it is 1960 but how do I tell if it is Mk 1 or Mk 2? David
Samuel Bell www.belltractors.com: The obvious difference between a MkI and MkII 65 is in the joint between engine and clutch housing. Behind the sump in a MkI there is a smallsegment of metal like a pie segment, where the joint in the MkII is complete between the engine and clutch bell housing.
Hamish Lowe: There are several differences between the Mk1 and 2, the easiest to notice is the size of fuel tank. The Mk1 had a large space for 2 x 6 volt batteries and a small fuel tank. The Mk2 had only space for one 12 volt battery and therefore a larger fuel tank. The other most noticeable difference was to the injectors and manifold, as the Mk 2 was direct injection as opposed to the Mk 1 which was indirect. The Mk 2 has sloping injectors and a smaller manifold (or is it the Mk 1). Other differences are the oil filter which is sloping on Mk 1 but vertical on Mk2 and also the Mk1 has a wedge at theback of the engine on the near side.
John: The serial number is 1960 and if it is a Mk2 it will have a Perkins AD4.203 engine, the Mk1 had a PerkinsA4.192 engine.
Ali, fae Crieff: My 65 was built in 1960 and 1st registered in Feb. 1961, it's serial no. is sny 528685. It is definitely a mk1, confirmed by at least the following ~
smaller diesel tank, (to allow room for two 6 volt batteries)
larger inlet manifold
separate wedge to rear of cast sump.
differences to the injecters ,but I can't remember which way, and possibly,
a longer or shorter crank to the bent arm which connects the track control arms, along with, I think a deeper well to the front axle.
only Engine Number known: Is it possible to source the Serial Number and Registration number of my TED-20 purely from the engine number?... Matt
Chris Massingham: No, it is not possible to find the serial number or the registration number from the engine number. If you wish to date the tractor, look just forward of the dipstick on the transmission housing and you should finda series of small numbers. eg 12-12-1. First number is day, second month and last year. If in doubt, email them to me. Chris Massingham, the FoFH Registration service
Location of Numbers: Can anyone tell me where to look for the serial numbers for my MF 35 1961 model?...
John: The serial number should be on a plate riveted to dash panel (near to your left knee as you sit on the tractor). If the plate is missing it is also stamped in the top of the gearbox, left hand side just below the steeringcolumn. On some tractors it was also stamped into the rear gutter on the back edge of fuel tank: not all tractors had thisbut you may be lucky.
Bob: I can send you an attachment I use to help owners ID their Ferguson tractor, it gives varies places to look for s/n and casting dates, email me if you would like me to send it. Atterbob@aol.com
Implements...
Rear Weight: Does anyone have advice or instructions on how to make a rear weight for a TEF20 to counterbalancethe Loader? I have the original Ferguson bar that hooks over the draw bar but need to cast a weight to go around it. Dimensions for making the box to cast it in would be helpful. Jerry
Gary: The way I made my counter balance was to get an old bale spike and grind the spike off it then make it fit into a 45gallon plastic drum by putting holes in the drum to fit the bale spike inside. Then fill the 45gallon drum with concrete. Make sure to keep the loader on all the time when you have the weight on the back because it is very very easy to tip the tractor even on a slight hump in the ground, but when the loader is on it works very well and also gives the tractor more traction on the ground.
Ian Collins: I take it you mean the 6 or 7 cwt [~300kg] concrete block with 2 large hooks protruding through it. [Ian kindly supplied a picture with dimensions].
Ferguson Trailer: How can I tell a Ferguson from a MF trailer?...
Bob: I have discovered that the difference between a Ferguson trailer and the MF trailer is that the sides of a Ferguson trailer drop into slots on the side steel "U-beam" and on the MF they are hinged.
Post Hole Borer: Should my post hole borer be full of oil?...
John: No it shouldn't. If the level is above the input shaft it will leak: if it is a Ferguson PHBorer thereis a level plug fitted and it should be filled till the oil is level with the plug, this is when the machine is fitted tothe tractor and in working position. Basically as long as the gears are picking up oil from the gear housing and there is enough to splash around to lube the bearings it is ok. I stand to be corrected on this but I think the oil to be used wasEP90.
Reduction Box: Can anyone tell me what a reduction box is used for or what is does for a TE20?...Gary
John: A reduction box allows you to slow down the travelling speed of the tractor whilst maintaining thecorrect PTO speed. Usually used for a rotavator but some use it for planting so the tractor will travel very slowly.
Adam evans (age 15): A reduction gearbox doubles up the number of gears that the tractor has: it gives it a sort of high and low. It works well with the TVO models because they don't run that well on low revs.
Mick: My wife has a TE20 Xstitch sold by: Lyndisfarne, Quarry Lane, Tarporley, Cheshire, CW6 0NJ UK. Tel: +441829 752686. The UK price was £16.50.
Caroline McCormick: I recently purchased a Fergie TE20 cross stitch kit. It cost me £18.50. The address is:- [as above]. You can also find this on the web site www.lyndisfarne.demon.co.uk
Chris Massingham: The following company will provide you with one: BM Designs PO Box 14, Market Deeping, Peterborough PE6 9LZ UK. Tel: +441778 346020 www.bmdesigns.co.uk.
If anyone would like to give me details of their own cross-stitch designs which FoFH can publish on the web site and/or in the magazine, please contact the Web Editor, Alan Gregory.
Credits...
Thanks are due to those who posed questions on the Market Place, and also to those who supplied answers.
I hope no-one has been missed out, and hope no-one has been included in the credits who would prefer anonymity. The
Web Editor, Alan Gregory is open to complaints...
